[D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
- Hisomu Susumu
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[D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
Susumu does his best to quiet his nerves as he waits. The idea to ask this issue had not occured to him before he had already been dismissed. In retrospect this might have been better feelings aside. He had sent word ahead with his request and patiently waits
Spider | Bushi...and Courtier? Nani?!? | "Representative" of the Brood (Ninube and Reo's kids) | Surprisingly high ranked
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
He is invited inside quickly, and Shiba is present as he does. He inclines his head slightly. "My apologies for cutting you off earlier. What can I do for you, Hisomu-san?"
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- Hisomu Susumu
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- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:29 pm
Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
"Forgive me, Honorable Son of the Heavens. I am a student of the legal codes of the Empire and I appear to be a poor one, as I have come to a quandary that I cannot seem to find a definitive answer upon. And so my question, more questions really, arise from this proposed scenario:"
"Say, for example, that one samurai were to suspect another from a different Clan of an offence perpetrated against them in secret. Let us say, purely in the hypothetical, the theft of an item. After bringing forth the accusation, they each agree to a duel to settle the issue privately."
"From what I have read, a duel is one of many tools used in mediation. However, if one is to be punished for the act, it would be by Imperial law. If the one who had been stolen from had never been aware of the theft, and the thief was discovered, it would still be a violation of Imperial Law, whether the victim had the presence to seek justice. Therefore, is the standing to seek redress from crime against the person upon it was in inflicted, or is it upon the Empire upon which the law in founded?"
"If it is the former, then can an outside party ever press for redress of grievances as they have no standing? If the latter, would the agreement to settle the issue by duel be acceptable if not agreed to by Imperial authority?"
"Say, for example, that one samurai were to suspect another from a different Clan of an offence perpetrated against them in secret. Let us say, purely in the hypothetical, the theft of an item. After bringing forth the accusation, they each agree to a duel to settle the issue privately."
"From what I have read, a duel is one of many tools used in mediation. However, if one is to be punished for the act, it would be by Imperial law. If the one who had been stolen from had never been aware of the theft, and the thief was discovered, it would still be a violation of Imperial Law, whether the victim had the presence to seek justice. Therefore, is the standing to seek redress from crime against the person upon it was in inflicted, or is it upon the Empire upon which the law in founded?"
"If it is the former, then can an outside party ever press for redress of grievances as they have no standing? If the latter, would the agreement to settle the issue by duel be acceptable if not agreed to by Imperial authority?"
Spider | Bushi...and Courtier? Nani?!? | "Representative" of the Brood (Ninube and Reo's kids) | Surprisingly high ranked
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
"Understand, Hisomu-san, that the purpose of the duel is to discover the truth of the matter where two parties disagree on the facts of the case, rather than to settle the issue. A duel is not a private matter. Once a duel has resolved, the wrong will be addressed according to Imperial law. We are starting with an incorrect premise, so it is difficult to answer the rest of the question. I will do so by simply going over the legal process as it stands."
"When the crime is discovered, it would be upon the discoverer to present it, and the accused to respond to the accusation. Then we would gather evidence, including physical circumstances and testimony, though in the fan case, it's one piece of evidence against another - the presence of the fan vs. the accused's word. Thus, the duel to determine the weight either way. After that, it is addressed according to Imperial Law if found out."
"Ideally, the parties will be present and adult enough to settle things before Imperial authority ever needs to be involved, though. Certainly in terms of intra-Clan matters."
"When the crime is discovered, it would be upon the discoverer to present it, and the accused to respond to the accusation. Then we would gather evidence, including physical circumstances and testimony, though in the fan case, it's one piece of evidence against another - the presence of the fan vs. the accused's word. Thus, the duel to determine the weight either way. After that, it is addressed according to Imperial Law if found out."
"Ideally, the parties will be present and adult enough to settle things before Imperial authority ever needs to be involved, though. Certainly in terms of intra-Clan matters."
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- Hisomu Susumu
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Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
Susumu nods. "That does answer key parts of my questions Great Son of Heaven, but it does immediately lend itself to new ones. Again, please forgive me, I opted for a hypothetical based upon the case at hand, the one that began my pondering but I am intrigued as to the practice and and practical implications not the system as a whole. We are in a way fortunate in the matter at hand, distasteful as it is, has occurred in a place where Imperial oversight is immediate with the most auspicious of audited. When we leave to return to our lands we will be not so blessed and I seek to know how to proceed with virtue in that absence."
Susumu tries to gauge the patience of his Emperor
Susumu tries to gauge the patience of his Emperor
Spider | Bushi...and Courtier? Nani?!? | "Representative" of the Brood (Ninube and Reo's kids) | Surprisingly high ranked
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
"I suppose. What else do you which to know?"
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- Hisomu Susumu
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Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
"If the duel is a form of evidence, and a conclusive one at that, at what point the value of holding one outweighed by a preponderance of evidence the other direction? In another hypothetical, similar to the previous case, someone would attest to the appearance of the culprit. Would that one new piece of evidence tip the need to hold a duel in one direction or the other? Would five? Would ten?" Susumu tries to keep his tone the driest of any academic who visited the library. "At what point does the probative value of a duel be outweighed by the weight of other valid evidence? Can one steadfastedly hold an assertion of guilt or innocence contrary to all other sources to hold out for a duel to show the will of Heaven?"
Susumu lowers his head respectfully. "As you say, we ought to be adult enough to settle matters on our own. However, one of the benefits of our time together has been renewed interest in traveling to each other's lands for one reason or another. And with that contact will come inevitable complications, even innocuous misunderstandings leading to accusations where neither are truly in the wrong because there is something each does not know. For instance, in this specific matter at hand if the solution is that the fan was found where it was because it was dropped and a maid thought it belonged in a place it should not, and has not thought of any connection to come forward."
" This one humbly submits that to keep the peace, it may be beneficial to expand the service to magistrates in some form, so that persons trained to answer questions such as these are readily at hand. I know that Clans have begun to train their own in some shape or form, but I know of no consistent standard they must meet. Even if it is not to the rigorous standard that you would hold your own magistrates too, perhaps we can at least be prepared to solve simple cases before they become increasingly complex to scrutinize with time and distance."
Susumu lowers his head respectfully. "As you say, we ought to be adult enough to settle matters on our own. However, one of the benefits of our time together has been renewed interest in traveling to each other's lands for one reason or another. And with that contact will come inevitable complications, even innocuous misunderstandings leading to accusations where neither are truly in the wrong because there is something each does not know. For instance, in this specific matter at hand if the solution is that the fan was found where it was because it was dropped and a maid thought it belonged in a place it should not, and has not thought of any connection to come forward."
" This one humbly submits that to keep the peace, it may be beneficial to expand the service to magistrates in some form, so that persons trained to answer questions such as these are readily at hand. I know that Clans have begun to train their own in some shape or form, but I know of no consistent standard they must meet. Even if it is not to the rigorous standard that you would hold your own magistrates too, perhaps we can at least be prepared to solve simple cases before they become increasingly complex to scrutinize with time and distance."
Spider | Bushi...and Courtier? Nani?!? | "Representative" of the Brood (Ninube and Reo's kids) | Surprisingly high ranked
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
"I will refer you to the Emerald Champion upon her return," he replied. "The legal code she set out, which includes my input, is available in the library. Your questions can be answered there, and you can discuss further modifications with her, which I can then approve."
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- Hisomu Susumu
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:29 pm
Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
Susumu bows again. "Many thanks for your time, expertise and wisdom Honorable Son of Heaven"
Spider | Bushi...and Courtier? Nani?!? | "Representative" of the Brood (Ninube and Reo's kids) | Surprisingly high ranked
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
Carries: Daisho, Yumi, Sturdy Clothing, Light Armor, Straw Cloak
Status: 4.0 Glory: 1.0 Honor: Exceptional
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Re: [D7 LA] A Question of Legal Scholarship
"Of course."
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