Ice Fishing - Observation/ Discussion thread (D4, EM)

[Akodo Moshi]

"Sadly the monk offered little advice as to what my destiny would be, but advised my father to visit Seppun Hill to find the next step. I haven't seen him since."

[Bayushi Sasori]

[quote="Bayushi Sasori" post
"More the way you put it, I think, Bayushi-sama." Phi smiled. "Or perhaps I'm reading too much into word choice..."

"Is a skill that you will learn." Sasori smiled. "Knowing when to read and when it is just straight answers."

[Akodo Kawauso]

"Uncle Yuzuru is here, so it's important to keep in mind being a good host. Even if he and Hsieh-Hsieh-sama seems very occupied at the moment," she laughed a bit, having seen the old fox devour the fishies happily.

"Let's go for a swim tomorrow then, yes? I haven't been invited to anything important after court is held, so I should be free to take those lessons."

Kawauso giggles too as she looks toward the happy fox.

"That's lovely, Togashi-sama. It will be my pleasure," the tall Lion bows her smiling head respectfully and excuses herself to attend other event attendees.

[Kuu]

"A pedleg is never as good as the original leg, but can still help with supporting the body quite well. Simply being able to know the position of people around you more accurately that with sound alone would ease the life of a number of persons with poor sight.

Are these techniques particularly hard to learn? If I may ask, how long did it take to master your own?"

"A long time ago I witnessed Shinsei himself look at people in a crowd, and pick a few of them that he said were destined for a task of the greatest importance. He explained his choice by a mix of criteria, some very down-to-earth, other deeply spiritual and mystical.

Did something similar happen to you?

The task ended up a great success by the way."

"I am not a good measure for that. From my perspective it took my entire life, since I was raised by a follower of Shinsei since childhood. I've been training my body and spirit for it ever since that point. Others I've seen that have no training have taken years or months. Someone trained as a monk among the dragon as a shugenja can learn kiho in a matter of weeks and days though it is a little bit more difficult for them since the Order trains in a specific way for it."

"Sadly the monk offered little advice as to what my destiny would be, but advised my father to visit Seppun Hill to find the next step. I haven't seen him since."

"Destiny is a hazy thing. Seeing the truth of it can be as hard as seeing a flea on a cat from 100 yards."

[Jiyo Sora]

"Is a skill that you will learn." Sasori smiled. "Knowing when to read and when it is just straight answers."

Phi nodded

"As you say, Bayushi-sama."

A pause.

"May I ask what you do for fun?"

[Chai Kotsume]

"Shi . . . the Emperor would not be happy for me to be risking myself ice fishing I'm afraid. It took a little convincing just for this little trip here. Visit I should say! Not trip! We don't want to foretell nasty accidents do we?"

He laughed, drawing a raised eyebrow stare from his vulpine companion.

"More seriously. I have left that life behind. It was simpler but the World has changed after the Kami fell from the Heavens. We all have to adjust and accept our new roles."

The fisher girl laughs as well, reasonably silenty, at Yuzuru's remark, then nods (which she takes some time to remember he doesn't see). "Hai, I understand, Yuzuru-heika. We... we all try to adjust - with Tenno-heika's guidance, certainly to something better, yeah?"

She extends her hand as if to get his hand on hers, but holds back just in time to remember she's heard those gestures are also something that might need adjusting. Her mind wanders for a while, and those looking might see her frowning a bit in frustration, but she soon shakes it off.

"Well... if Yuzuru-heika feels like another visit sitting by the river one day, and you would like someone to get some fish for you and dear Hsieh-hsieh", she says with a friendly voice, stopping for a while as she looks at the fox finishing the bits of fish along with the otter cub. "I'll be happy to provide."

[Bayushi Sasori]

Phi nodded

"As you say, Bayushi-sama."

A pause.

"May I ask what you do for fun?"

Sasori gave it some thought. "Well, lady Jiyo, this one likes to make little animals out of paper. I also like to play hide and seek." She smiled. "Does Lady Jiyo play games like that?"

[Jiyo Ayumu]

"I am not a good measure for that. From my perspective it took my entire life, since I was raised by a follower of Shinsei since childhood. I've been training my body and spirit for it ever since that point. Others I've seen that have no training have taken years or months. Someone trained as a monk among the dragon as a shugenja can learn kiho in a matter of weeks and days though it is a little bit more difficult for them since the Order trains in a specific way for it."

"I can see why such techniques are easy to learn by the monks of the Dragon, as their training seem to have a lot of common with your own, emphasizing mastering one's body, meditating and learning from the lessons of Shinsei.

But priests have curriculum of their own, possibly not focusing at all on physical improvement or the quest for enlightenment, raising even more questions about the key to unlock such potential.

A hypothesis could be made that you're using your energy to commune with the Kami of your own body, and the heat is produced by the Fire kami of your skin answering your prayers. That would explain why a shugenja, especially one already attuned with fire, has little difficulties learning to do the same.

I guess some scholars of your order have already studied theories of that kind? Do you know their results? Actually, did persons with the gift of the Kami join your order? Were their ability to request the Kami's help unchanged, improved or hindered after several years of training?"

Ayumu bowed:

"Sorry for the flood of questions. The teacher in me is frustrated by the fact a lot of the education in the Empire is still a private affair between master and students, with teachers refusing to share their own tricks with other teachers, to the detriment of all students. So, since your order appears to not be as secretive in such matters, I jumped on the opportunity to learn as much as possible.

Fundamentally, I'm trying to get the best possible pictures to see how this would fit in a more general educational system. For example, if a blind child could learn that somewhat blindness-compensating technique in, let's say one year of dedicated training, before returning home to continue their secular childhood and education."

[Yuzuru]

The fisher girl laughs as well, reasonably silenty, at Yuzuru's remark, then nods (which she takes some time to remember he doesn't see). "Hai, I understand, Yuzuru-heika. We... we all try to adjust - with Tenno-heika's guidance, certainly to something better, yeah?"

She extends her hand as if to get his hand on hers, but holds back just in time to remember she's heard those gestures are also something that might need adjusting. Her mind wanders for a while, and those looking might see her frowning a bit in frustration, but she soon shakes it off.

"Well... if Yuzuru-heika feels like another visit sitting by the river one day, and you would like someone to get some fish for you and dear Hsieh-hsieh", she says with a friendly voice, stopping for a while as she looks at the fox finishing the bits of fish along with the otter cub. "I'll be happy to provide."

The fox looked up at his name being said, now that the fish was gone and nosed the otter cub before heading back to Yuzuru and sitting beside him.

"Oh you'll soon find you have a new vulpine best friend if you do that. Only chicken stands higher in his food ratings than fish."

Then the Consort tilted his head, listening to something and frowned. Picking up on his mood and something via the mystical-no-one-was-sure-how-it-worked bond between them, Hsieh-Hsieh turned to look directly at Jiyo Ayumu in vulpine judgement.

[Jiyo Sora]

Sasori gave it some thought. "Well, lady Jiyo, this one likes to make little animals out of paper. I also like to play hide and seek." She smiled. "Does Lady Jiyo play games like that?"

"Well, I don't do the paper animals- that sounds really interesting!- but a bit of hide-and-seek? My sister and i do that a lot."

She glanced about, as if making sure Hsieh-Hsieh wasn't too close at hand.

"We, ah... also have a game we play with the Lord Consort's fox. If Hsieh-Hsieh-sama sneaks up on us, he can steal any food we happen to be using. If we can get hold of him.... we dress him in a kimono and make him take tea with us."

A pause.

"Naturally, that latter game is... on hold with all of the guests in town for the winter."

[Kuu]

-snip-

"As it was explained to me, the energy that is manipulated in kiho is not the same as the elemental spirits that answer shugenja. Apparently a shugenja does not sense elemental spirits internal to a person manipulating their chi. Rather, we are all made up of those energies, so manipulating and transforming them is just manipulating and transforming ourselves."

"I doubt that a child could learn to manipulate and control their chi or prepare their body to handle it in one year. Part of the problem being that their bodies are in a much more extreme state of change than that of an adult. The locations of chi points and flows would constantly be shifting. Also, many of the kiho will likely be available for people to learn if they have enough base understanding, but gaining that base understanding is really the most difficult part."

"It's not likely that the Order will prepare people for the ability to use kiho, and then teach them the kiho, outside of people joining the order. It takes a great deal of patience and time, which we need to devote to those that have come to us as brothers and sisters first. But that is not to say that the Imperial Families couldn't create an order of their own to fill a different role form the Order of Heroes. Shinsei's teachings can apply to many duties and aspects of life. An order that serves a specific role such as education for the Imperial families is something that you could probably recruit some monks to. Not every follower of Shinsei chose to take part in the Order after it was founded, and others might be willing to change duties if another order presented itself."

[Bayushi Sasori]

Sasori gave it some thought. "Well, lady Jiyo, this one likes to make little animals out of paper. I also like to play hide and seek." She smiled. "Does Lady Jiyo play games like that?"

"Well, I don't do the paper animals- that sounds really interesting!- but a bit of hide-and-seek? My sister and i do that a lot."

She glanced about, as if making sure Hsieh-Hsieh wasn't too close at hand.

"We, ah... also have a game we play with the Lord Consort's fox. If Hsieh-Hsieh-sama sneaks up on us, he can steal any food we happen to be using. If we can get hold of him.... we dress him in a kimono and make him take tea with us."

A pause.

"Naturally, that latter game is... on hold with all of the guests in town for the winter."

"I am a pretty good seeker and great at hiding. Mother used to sneak into Doji no Kami's garden to find herbs." Sasori tried to hold a giggle. "Me and my brothers played with father, we never got to find him until he decided to sneak behind us."

[Jiyo Sora]

"I am a pretty good seeker and great at hiding. Mother used to sneak into Doji no Kami's garden to find herbs." Sasori tried to hold a giggle. "Me and my brothers played with father, we never got to find him until he decided to sneak behind us."

"Dad taught us stealth as well- usually by setting time limits."

She frowned

"He said it dates from his years looking after the Emperor's daughters, which makes me think it's his idea of a fallback position..."

[Bayushi Sasori]

Sasori nodded. "You have to know your fights. Sometimes, it is better to hide and live to fight another day." Sasori explained. "Some people say knowing your enemy makes you stronger."

[Jiyo Ayumu]

snip

"Let's not put the cart before the horse. These kiho definitely have potential and a lot could be learned from studying them. But your clarifications made me reconsider about their applicability to daily life for the near future.

Similarly, let's not create yet another Imperial office on impulse. However, it could be interesting to assign one Imperial librarian to your order for some time, so they can assist you in putting all that new knowledge on paper.

The very act of writing down things is often key to understanding after all, as it forces the writer to ask themselves questions they may have never thought of otherwise, and having an experimented co-author at your side does wonder for the clarity of any text."

[Kuu]

-snip-

"It's not so much about creating an Imperial office as it is a potential separate order that supports the Imperial families directly. The Order of Heroes has a purpose of it's own, and any duties and responsibilities that it takes on impacts that purpose. We work to serve the heavens and the people of the empire, but we do so in a mostly indirect way. Our lifestyle is based on a loose set of teachings, but it is not entirely defined by them. Which opens the possibility of organizing like minded monks into other Orders with different purposes."

[Jiyo Ayumu]

snip

"I still fail to see how such an order would be different from a division of the guard with a training focused on breathing exercises, hand-to-hand techniques, and mastering one's internal energy.

From my understanding, a monk is someone who has directly dedicated their life to a certain duty, while a clanspeople serves a person. They may have great aspirations that they hope to achieve with the help of their clans, but they're still fundamentally a social agent, defined by their relationships with other people, whereas a monk's loyalty is to their cause first and foremost.

The concept of a clan monk therefore still eludes me. I know the Togashi are described as such... But this feels more like a convenience because they don't fit with the usual labels of warriors, administrators, artists etc. than because they're an actual monastic order.

In short, I'm asking you no less than answering the philosophical question: What is a monk?"

[Kuu]

-snip-

"There is nothing that specifically prevents a monk from being a servant of a person. A monk is someone that seeks understanding as their primary drive. The Ise Zumi are indeed monks, not because they don't fit into other categories, but because of their personal pursuits and lifestyle. The fact that they have a duty to a lord does not change what they personally seek in this life. Just as the Order of Heroes follows a duty and purpose to do what they can to prepare the empire for it's challenges by seeking heroes to face them. But when we go about that duty we do not forsake our personal journey of understanding."

"In that regard, the difference between roles is the expectation of the leaders. The head of a clan or family should expect bushi to train and be prepared for combat, a shugenja to safeguard the spiritual well-being of their people, and a courtier to form connections and grow socially. This is outside of the expectation that they fulfill specific tasks or duties. For a monk the expectation should be that they contemplate or improve their understanding of their place in the world. But they can still have a specifically designated duty or purpose with tasks and assignments that reflect a need their lord has to help the family or clan."

[Jiyo Sora]

Sasori nodded. "You have to know your fights. Sometimes, it is better to hide and live to fight another day." Sasori explained. "Some people say knowing your enemy makes you stronger."

"Sounds like Dad all right. He says ignorance will get you killed a lot faster than weakness."

A frown.

"Of course, he's also kinda paranoid sometimes..."

[Bayushi Sasori]

"That is nice then. Good training and a good ear to learn what others might be weak against. Some people think such methods are wrong." Sasori poked her own nose with her fan twice.