Hey everyone:

For transparency and simplicity, the active Lion and Ki-Rin players voted to publish what we're trying to do with influence and to seek help to get the last few points we're hoping for. We're very close to being able to do a number of cool things, but even burning Kawauso's Great Destiny isn't going to get us there yet.

Here's the Lion Clan shopping list:
10 clan goal ("Establish and expand the Lion's maritime holdings and forces" - so, connecting with Akodo's wife's people, the Ningyo)
7 Kawauso family
5 Makime Ayano's famous road project
3 for Ki-rin Alliance goal

25 total. Lion Clan has 24, if and only if Kawauso burns her Great Destiny.

Ki-Rin Clan shopping list:
7 clan goal (multi-clan alliance, factoring in Lion help above)
7 river guardian school

14 total. Ki-Rin Clan (army of one, Chai Kotsume) has 11.

So a total of 4 makes all this happen, and 7 means it all happens without Kawauso becoming less great. I think some folks have earmarked or suggested points to support different pieces of this package -- we're hoping to get all of it accounted for very transparently so that folks know exactly how many points are still "in play."

Please let us know what questions you have!

The Crane can volunteer one point towards the Unicorn.

Yay! I was hoping to get this started, thank you Kawauso for posting first!

So - to make everything as transparent as possible, Kotsume has GD and could burn it to get to those 14 as well. I was just hoping to not have to do it now as well, as I still had plans for her. But that means some points can help either Kotsu or Kawauso's destiny still bring great - and a buttload of points can help both of them still being great XD

Anyway! We'll be thankful for whatever we can get. And we're very thankful for Hikaru already! <3

If I may make a suggestion?

What about starting with the down-payment for a Kawauso Family now, and finishing it next game? I didn't even know a new Lion family was in the works. ^^;

Togashi Satsuki wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:54 am

If I may make a suggestion?

What about starting with the down-payment for a Kawauso Family now, and finishing it next game? I didn't even know a new Lion family was in the works. ^^;

Thanks for the suggestion, Satsuki. I'll give that some thought.

In case folks are curious, the thinking about a Lion family was very recent, as this that I posted in the clan forum kind of explains:

So I'm not pulling the trigger on this yet, especially if we need to rearrange influence, but I am thinking it's both cool and thematically appropriate if instead of a school right now, Kawauso was granted a family. Here's what I'm thinking:

Kawauso is known mostly for her traditionalist/clan-outsider style, not anything she's battled. I mean "Kawauso Beartamer" isn't a spear chucker school.

But politically, she's very anti-rules, anti-strict castes, let's protect the rivers and animals -- a family centred on coexistence with nature, not exploiting peasants, and using technology/progress in a more egalitarian way would be very her, and it could be tasked with keeping "the people's traditions safe" and being prepared to bring their woods and river skills to light infantry (and in a magical future time of more goal accomplishment, combat engineering) roles. Seems to be different from Akodo and Makime, and presumably from Ikoma, unless he's way different than canon. Could even spawn a very druidish shugenja school if people with that gift joined the family.

This is also a nice, "Genji broke my heart, but I'm going to go do things the way I know they should be done" kind of personal mission thing that feels super right to me coming out of all of Kawauso's travails this game.

So, any thoughts? If I'm being crazy, please tell me. Honest feedback is always appreciated. Thanks for reading!

Thanks for the suggestion Satsuki!

I'll also mention if we don't get enough, I'm thinking of leaving EITHER the Otter river guardian school or the Kawauso family for later so we can both keep GD (as I think the sisters still have much to do, and I think both of us are thinking of them returning!)

I know I'd be happy to support the Kawauso family and leave the river guardian school for later if that's what it takes

IMO, River Guardian as a path shared between the clans in the River Alliance makes a lot of sense to me. And from there can build towards a whole School or Family.

Togashi Satsuki wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:35 pm

IMO, River Guardian as a path shared between the clans in the River Alliance makes a lot of sense to me. And from there can build towards a whole School or Family.

That's actually a good question - can we build a full school later starting from a Path? I think that's a good question for GM questions XD

Chai Kotsume wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:36 pm

Togashi Satsuki wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:35 pm

IMO, River Guardian as a path shared between the clans in the River Alliance makes a lot of sense to me. And from there can build towards a whole School or Family.

That's actually a good question - can we build a full school later starting from a Path? I think that's a good question for GM questions XD

There was a debate a while back about schools being built as essientally similar paths that merged together.

Oh I totally missed that! Can you point me to the thread? Or was that on Discord?

I believe it was a Discord thing...from like way back.

I might also be making it up and my brain is just telling me it was a discussion. But I think someone floated it at one point and it was at least acknowledged as an idea.

Akodo Kawauso wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:02 pm

<Appears to be Prime Birbverse Kolat Material>

If I had any Influence at all to spare... but I'm not even 100% sure I got the three I needed for my pet project...

Right... so it seems like if go for a Path now we still have to pay full for the School later, so not sure I'd go for that right now *thinks*

Jiyo Sora wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:11 pm

Akodo Kawauso wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:02 pm

<Appears to be Prime Birbverse Kolat Material>

If I had any Influence at all to spare... but I'm not even 100% sure I got the three I needed for my pet project...

No worries, good Sora. Appreciate the positive energy nonetheless.

And re: being Kolat material, that's... Yeah. Painted myself into a corner a bit there. But, Kawauso's gotta be her river girl self, and her experience in background and during this game is really consistent. So, we'll see what the future holds!

Posting an update here!

So after long conversations, it seems like the Kirin and Lion budget is currently looking like the following, with some changes from the initial plan:

Kirin: 11 Influence without GD
Lion: 21 influence without GD
Total: 32 influence without GD

Shopping list:
Lion goal: 10
Ayano's roads: 5
Kirin goal (3 clan alliance): 10, 3 paid by 3rd clan so 7
Kawauso family: 7
Warming Kirin relations: 3, 2 paid by other clan so 1
Possible shared "River Guardian" path: 3

Total cost: 33

So... If we go for a Path for now instead of a school (even though apparently it wouldn't help create a school later), with Hikaru's contribution we may have reached our goal

Of course if anyone's still interested in contributing we'll happily accept the help, but this sounds real fun already!

Wasn’t Hikaru’s point granted to benefit the Unicorn (rather than Lion families etc.?)

Right now it looks like Lion are actually coming away with a slightly bigger portion of the total pie than they started with here. ^_^;;

(Roads, Lion Clan Goal, new Lion family = 22 points just on exclusively Lion things. If you count the alliances as wholly Ki-rin things since that’s their Clan Goal, Ki-rin only spend 8 points on themselves, then foot the whole bill for the shared path, and effectively donate Hikaru’s point to the Lion total.)

In the interest of full disclosure, I tend to think it makes more thematic sense to be granted permission from one’s Kami/lord to found a family after other stuff like performing a service, creating a new martial technique, completing a quest, etc. Family before any of those things, at the beginning of the story, feels like putting the cart before the horse narratively speaking. But you don’t have to listen to me.

I totally see your point here, Kogi, and I don't want Hikaru to feel cheated by his point going towards that (we did speak on Discord about that, though! I'm adding this here after the fact )

But I should probably say - I'm actually the one that kept insisting it might be fun to keep GD for both Kawauso and Kotsume for the Thunders game, either to make thunder sisters possible, or to at least do something heroic together there! As for the family, both Kogi and Satsuki have said similar things in that regard, and I'd generally agree, I think!

But then I really liked the reasoning behind the Kawauso family when her player sent it to me, and the whole idea of "keeping people's traditions safe" is something that plays into what Kotsume would like as well.

So with that plus a Path for now, and the possibility of creating two schools next game (likely burning GD THEN as the chance of them returning after that is much smaller, and Thunders game is suppose to be a very heroic one!), I think we're set up to have a really fun and significant legacy from the Daikawa girls!

Specifically regarding Hikaru's point... we could say Kotsume tried to put in some support to her sister while she was setting up her family during these 5 years, I guess! Oooor we could say she helped Ayano's roads get accepted among the Ki-rin, that also works

So... just an explanation that I'm ok with it, if Hikaru is (and all the others involved are as well!)

And again, thanks for the opinion, and for caring <3

Honestly, it'd probably be best to put a down payment on a School. Schools are expensive and if you are the Clan Thunders, you probably will not be able to use your GD for the Schools. Your GD is being a Thunder not founding a School.

Since a Path is almost half the price of a School, it'd probably be more efficient making a down payment on the School rather than making a Path this game and aiming for a School next game. At least, that's how I see the math coming.

I've had a character burn their GD in both Dawn games to help make a School. Neither game have I been able to do it *alone. So, I'd just make a down payment this game for the School. That way, you likely won't need to burn GD next game for it (especially if I'm right about Thunders not being able to burn it for end game goals) and/or still be able to do something else.

*Technically, I could have but by doing nothing else in the last game which would have actually fit with the character I played (she wanted to get married) or screwing over my Clan in this game (since everyone else would have been forced to use their points for the Clan goal or fail it).

Hisomu Kuni wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:15 am

Honestly, it'd probably be best to put a down payment on a School. Schools are expensive and if you are the Clan Thunders, you probably will not be able to use your GD for the Schools. Your GD is being a Thunder not founding a School.

Since a Path is almost half the price of a School, it'd probably be more efficient making a down payment on the School rather than making a Path this game and aiming for a School next game. At least, that's how I see the math coming.

I've had a character burn their GD in both Dawn games to help make a School. Neither game have I been able to do it *alone. So, I'd just make a down payment this game for the School. That way, you likely won't need to burn GD next game for it (especially if I'm right about Thunders not being able to burn it for end game goals) and/or still be able to do something else.

*Technically, I could have but by doing nothing else in the last game which would have actually fit with the character I played (she wanted to get married) or screwing over my Clan in this game (since everyone else would have been forced to use their points for the Clan goal or fail it).

That's actually a fair point, and I'm asking birb a few things about it all. I... do feel burning GD to be a thunder not making it possible to spend it to found a school may not end up being a thing? I mean, 5 of the 7 Thunders from Canon had their own families. The ones that did not being Hida Atarasi (who from his story sounds like he had DF instead!) and Doji Konishiko.... whose daughter became the Dark Daughter of Fu Leng, so maybe also Dark Fate material?). But it might happen, so it's worth keeping in mind! Thanks for the heads up : )

Those canon characters may have saved their GD for the Day of Thunder and built up their worldly legacies the slow way... most of them were already quite prominent people before Shinsei saw their destiny and recruited them (Konishiko, as the Crane alternate whom no one rated that highly at first, could maaaaybe be considered the one exception there), and some of them, like Otaku and Mirumoto, actually had kids who were the real family founders.

Canonically, I suspect Doji Yasurugi must have fulfilled his GD by making all those magic swords, since an oni was able to take him out right before the Thunders were to assemble... Just getting to the final confrontation without dying too soon seems to have required GD. If they all "burned" GD to be a Thunder, that represents Destiny keeping them alive up to that day so that they could sacrifice themselves at the right moment.

GD isn't really burned up or used so much as fulfilled, so it follows that you'd need to still have it around, very much unfulfilled, in order to be one of the ones destined to save the world.

But yeah, if you have long-term plans, it sounds like banking points toward goals is a thing, and it can sometimes make story sense. I know at least one thing (Great Falls City) is getting finished this game after it was banked-for last time. It takes time to build a city, after all!